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Alturnative Races.

Discussion in 'Feature Suggestions' started by wolfe, Aug 14, 2014.

  1. wolfe

    wolfe Crash Landed

    • Member
    I understand that the back story of the game is centered around the future of humans. the recent interview on the news page has enlightened me a bit on just what seems to be intended for this game. it was rather illuminating.

    I've also looked around the forums a bit and have seen some very interesting things about the game which I really like, so far its all pretty nice. from what I am seeing everything including the character model itself, is going to be voxel based. for those not consciously aware of this term, it means made of tiny pixels or blocks.

    this particularly caught my interest.
    https://www.seedofandromeda.com/community/threads/character-female-male.78/
    if this is correct then one can assume that the same player model can be modded to what ever we like am I right? again if this is so, then what about perhaps the possibility of a character creation concept? and if this is indeed a direction the game mite go, what about alternative race choices?
    SpaceHippie likes this.
  2. tetryds

    tetryds cus tet, that's it

    • Member
    yeah, its very likely that your character will be fully customizable.
    Also, modability will be a big thing, wouldn't even bother asking if you can mod the characters.
    But I believe that we could have other species for multiplayer, that would be fine IMO.
  3. Eviscerator

    Eviscerator Industrial Re-revolutionist

    • Member
    Well, if humanity is advanced enough...I wonder if you'll be able to select certain traits for your character out of a limited capacity for genetic manipulation?

    Maybe gills for swimming under water at the expense of webbed fingers and toes limiting the types of equipment you can use, or increased strength and durability at the cost of needing more food and water as well as more materials to construct clothes and armor?

    I'm just spitballing here, but with a strong modding community, I don't see any reason this game can't have character creation as robust as The Elder Scrolls, if not moreso.
  4. Arctic

    Arctic Giant Robot Advocate

    • Tester
    I believe bioaugmentation could play in as well. Get yourself some sweet augs. Genetic modification is.. Well, not to sound like Tetryds, not that that's a bad thing, extremely difficult in large scale for a multi celled organism. At least to the point wherein the technology would yield much better results applied as mechanical augmentations.
  5. SpaceHippie

    SpaceHippie Reinvented The Wheel

    • Member
    I do like the idea of genetic manipulation, different species, and/or mechanical augmentation. But balance would be really difficult. Interesting, but difficult.

    For instance, Eviscerator brought up gills and webbed feet. It would be silly to think a race with webbed feet couldn't make shoes that fit. But instead a balance of speed or the such. One could easily assume that a race built to be amphibious wouldn't be as agile or quick on land as a land based creature.

    And if gills why not wings? That augmentation would be very weight dependant. Their whole structure would have be lighter, hollow bones like birds or something of that nature, and it wouldn't be that they couldn't where armor it would just have to be so light it would be far less effective. And being that way they probably couldn't take as much damage as other players.

    Stronger and more durable would be great. But there would have to be some real good balance there. Personally I'd hate to see nothing but a bunch of tanks running around.

    Appearance customization would be awesome. I'd love it if every character I met was unique. But being voxels instead of polygons I don't see how it's all that possible. But I'm not a programmer. The devs are pretty amazing here and would have better ideas.

    All and all I love this idea. But I could also see the devs not really wanting to go this route too.
  6. Eviscerator

    Eviscerator Industrial Re-revolutionist

    • Member
    I wasn't suggesting webbed toes would prevent use of shoes, but armored gloves would be more like mittens, and that would also make it rather more difficult to fire contemporarily designed weapons. Like I said, just brainstorming here, and I do like the thought of wings.

    And I believe metabolism would be a good way to balance more durable/larger characters...and wings. I hadn't thought about flight, interesting. I suppose it'll come down to what technologies the devs want to put in. I mean, if most of the genetic tweaks can have their effects replicated with machinery instead of body modification, one or the other would be redundant.

    Now I've lost track of what I was trying to say. I love the idea, and there are plenty of ways to balance things, but it'll be up to the devs how far they wanna take it and run with it, or if they want it at all.

    That said, if it doesn't make it into the game, I would definitely love to see this as a mod.

    Oh.

    Oh God. I just realized this discussion may open the floodgates to furry and mlp avatars or skins.
  7. SpaceHippie

    SpaceHippie Reinvented The Wheel

    • Member
    Oh lord help us.

    Certain modifications would lead to the character needing specialized equipment. Which is in and of itself a balance. Say I have webbed hands. I would design equipment with that in mind. But now a character with standard hands wouldn't buy or trade for my equipment, and I'd have to get stuff from specialized dealers. (I am assuming some players or NPCs would set themselves up as dealers of some kind,)

    Of course some late game technologies would even out genetic modifications. Most of those modifications would only be advantageous or detrimental early game. Early game you have gills, so the ocean is your playground. Until ships, scuba gear, and submarines are made. Then the playing field is levelled out a bit. Early game you have wings, so the mountains and tree tops are your dominion. Until planes, jet packs, space ships come into play. Early game your stronger and tougher, so you hunt big game and dominate warfare. Until advanced armor and personal force fields are common place. Then in the end the modifications, race, or whatever are all cosmetic.
  8. Eviscerator

    Eviscerator Industrial Re-revolutionist

    • Member
    It even makes me wonder if, with a sufficiently advanced tech base, you could customize your character again in the late-game? It may be..beneficial..to assume a new appearance if one becomes too notorious.
  9. SpaceHippie

    SpaceHippie Reinvented The Wheel

    • Member
    Oh, I like that idea too. At a certain point you could get cosmetic surgery to change appearance. And then the genetic or cybernetic modifications later.

    I'd like the devs to weigh in on this. If they like it there is a lot of potential here for discussion. But if they are against it in the base game then it's all mods. Which is cool too.
  10. 10d22

    10d22 Designer

    • Dev Member
    • Moderator
    Character creation will most likely be in the game (Cant say 100% because its to early in development, you never know what happens), I dont know how in depth it will be either, as it isnt something we have really discussed.

    Other playable races is interesting, and I wont say that we wont have it, but it isnt planned. And if we did have other races I would like it to change the experience the player will have (they way the player progresses in technology, the way the player starts, the way races interacts with the player, maybe even the way the player fights).
    10d22, Aug 15, 2014
    Last edited by 10d22; at Aug 15, 2014
    #10
  11. SpaceHippie

    SpaceHippie Reinvented The Wheel

    • Member
    The other races/modifieds would all fight different just by their nature.

    Flyers would probably lean towards ranged weapons, being innately far from enemies. Tank/brutes would lean toward melee, doing a ton of damage. Swimmers I feel would be more stealthy, but that's more opinion than anything logical.

    If they are different races they would definitely have cultural opinions of the other races. But that would really built up through a form of history and story.
  12. tetryds

    tetryds cus tet, that's it

    • Member
    I think that flying is always going to be overpowered.
    Your weapons don't get weaker just because you have an extention of your ampits and some other stuff that allows you to fly.
    And if you want to fly just develop enough for jetpacks.
    tetryds, Aug 15, 2014
    Last edited by tetryds; at Aug 15, 2014
    #12
  13. SpaceHippie

    SpaceHippie Reinvented The Wheel

    • Member
    Flying could be. It is just a suggestion.

    But if the player's body has to be lighter and by extension more fragile it could be a good balance. The weapons wouldn't be weaker just the the character. Plus you wouldn't be a able to carry much at all cause your weight must be kept down to fly. So you can't carry much gear and your armor would be much smaller and give less protection. When other players have steel armor you have to wear leather. Granted that will be less of an issue when advanced alloys come into play, but then jetpacks may be in play at that point too.

    Then with weapons your arms wouldn't be as big or strong so melee wouldn't be as good. So the flyers would want ranged weapons. But on the same token they would have big ol' wings, making them bigger targets. And if you think that flying still gives too much of a combat bonus, play something like Halo: Reach. I use to pluck jetpack users out of the sky constantly cause they thought they were untouchable. Actually that brings up a good balance for that. Winged flight could be limited. Just a short while in the air. More like a really big, steerable jump.

    But there are a lot of other good ideas here besides flying.
    SpaceHippie, Aug 15, 2014
    Last edited by SpaceHippie; at Aug 15, 2014
    #13
  14. ThatOneGuy

    ThatOneGuy Reinvented The Wheel

    • Member
    Yeah, it only take one solid blow to the wing for a bird type creature to be grounded, and from there it's easy picking
  15. Cristian Zaloj

    Cristian Zaloj Game Programmer

    • Dev Member
    No, you would just have to be smart about when and where you fight flying beings. You would always fight them in confined spaces instead of in an open area. And if you are flying, you wouldn't want to be flying around everywhere since that would attract unwanted attention (a gang-bang to steal your wings/jetpack).
  16. Eviscerator

    Eviscerator Industrial Re-revolutionist

    • Member
    Flying is always overpowered, until decent fire control systems are developed. Once you can hit anything that flies thanks to radar/lidar/thermal/sonic/and possibly even magnetic and gravimetric detection systems all tied into a network, you can pretty much shoot down anything that's light enough to fly. Any extra energy used to lift armor would be better spent on shielding for ground vehicles once you start calculating weapon's DPS in kilotons or megatons.
  17. tetryds

    tetryds cus tet, that's it

    • Member
    Steal your wings???
    Anyway, the massiveness and openness of the planet gives a clear advantage to a flying being on it's own.

    I think that having naturally flying players is unecessary, would be too complicated to balance and could easily mess up some things.

    Why you imagine something that flies as being fragile?
    To be able to fly one has to be very beefy by default.
    And flying hunters like eagles can carry up to something like 3/4 of their weight.
    Rough aproximation, a 1.80m inteligent flying being would weight more than 100kg to be able to fly.
    Counting that it can carry 1/3 of it's weight, that's 33kg, which is not little at all.
    http://www.learner.org/jnorth/tm/eagle/ExpertAnswer05.html
    http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/9911/Giant_Harpy_Eagle_grabs_the_Sloth/

    False, a flying creature must have something simmilar to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keel_(bird_anatomy)
    I don't know you, but I would not want be on the way of a punch from an arm powered by muscles big enough to require something like that.

    Yes, they are bigger targets, but only while flying.
    The drawbacks while running/walking arent that massive.
    And there is the only place where you would be able to balance it out, making it walk slowly.
    But an inteligent race would wisely use it's wing lift during run to maintain a low area and still reduce weight using lift, allowing it to run faster than a non-flying humanoid.
    In fact, if they could not run much they wouldn't be able to fly.

    So that's not flying, that's "flying squirrel", and yes it would be quite interesting.
    They would have to be better adapted for a very specific environment to not lose this capability, after developing and making more use of their brains.
    Otherwise it could become something like our appendix.


    But I'm not "against" the idea, just pointing that if it was to be implemented it would require a lot of stuff to be designed about it.
    Which could fit very well as a mod.

    Several ideas posted here sound awesome.
    I would also want to see a dinossaur variation of intelligent species, which could have happened if dinossaurs didn't go extinct.
    tetryds, Aug 15, 2014
    Last edited by tetryds; at Aug 15, 2014
    #17
  18. SpaceHippie

    SpaceHippie Reinvented The Wheel

    • Member
    Very valid points as usual tetryds. My suggestions about weight and the character being fragile were based more on game balance then hard science.

    Which brings up the good point of genetic manipulation and different races may not be able to balance game wise if we take into account science. Nature doesn't balance creatures to be basically equal. It works them into niches in the environment. So different races may be better for NPC races than player.
  19. Eviscerator

    Eviscerator Industrial Re-revolutionist

    • Member
    A flying being wouldn't neccessarily be light, no, but it would be lightly constructed. As strong as it may be physically, the bones would still be hollow and relatively fragile. So anything that hit them could be a crippling blow, and the caloric demands of active flight would require them to eat quite a bit unless they were primarily gliders.

    I also have my doubts about hollow bones healing too well. A flying race would, in my opinion, epitomize the 'glass cannon' trope.
  20. ThatOneGuy

    ThatOneGuy Reinvented The Wheel

    • Member
    Yeah, as I mentioned earlier, if you get a good whack at your wing, you might be so severely crippled that you can no longer fly. And when you can only hop/wobble on the ground, you don't have much mobility to escape and be healed. And if you loose a wing early game, it might be one of the greatest drawbacks of that class, because you know what they say, wings don't grow on trees.

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