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Buoyancy and Water

Discussion in 'Feature Suggestions' started by ThatOneGuy, Jun 5, 2014.

  1. ThatOneGuy

    ThatOneGuy Reinvented The Wheel

    • Member
    I'll try to keep this brief an to the point.

    When it comes to living, water plays a pretty crucial role in our everyday lives, as it should in SOA. The player could use water for many purposes, including drinking, transportation, and power. I suggest that water be implemented as realistically as possible, being sure to keep key point, such as the water cycle, buoyancy, and salinity.

    The Water Cycle:
    By the water cycle, I mean truly implementing a fully functioning water cycle, consisting of all the stages, which in turn would determine the ecosystems of the player's region.
    Buoyancy:
    Buoyancy is key in player transportation, especially earlier in the tech tree. A boat may be the difference between a week long sail and month-long hikes. Though boats should not be over-powered, and pre-constructed, like another game I know of, but hand crafted by the player (or potentially NPCs) and must be powered by something, whether it be coal, wind, or the player. I would also like if oceans and lakes had waves, and tides, as this would add a dynamic boating experience.
    Salinity:
    I don't know a man who's lived by only drinking water straight from the ocean.

    Let me know if you want further clarification.
  2. Arctic

    Arctic Giant Robot Advocate

    • Tester
    As for the water cycle, I don't believe it would really be possible. Don't get me wrong, if Ben could make it work, hell yeah, but a functional water cycle taking into account every facet of the process would require millions of block updates as water evaporates from the ocean. The water system can't possibly be that well optimized.
    As for buoyancy, I see no reason not to have boats. As with all other vehicles, boats will likely be made up of blocks. As in, the player can build them. Larger ships, such as warships or liners, are also possible. Perhaps we will see some smaller boats that are pre-made, to serve as dinghies or rafts.
    I was just about to suggest a water purification system, so thank you for saving me the trouble. But yes, having the player need to purify water to be able to drink it without negative consequences would be a good bit of added difficulty. Maybe we could make it so that water quality could be specified on a per-biome basis.
  3. tetryds

    tetryds cus tet, that's it

    • Member
    Water cycle would be simulated by noise and average relative humidity of planet parts.
    The planned weather system is going to "simulate" it in a believeable way without requiring lots of complications.

    Buoyancy was planned as Ben mentioned he liked the idea people suggested of adding boats in the game and things like that.
    The physics engine aparently allows it, the only issue would be not allowing water to get inside, which could be "cheated" or something like that.

    Salinity is a good idea, I don't know what the block damage bits are meant to regarding water, but if they are spare that's something I would like to see.
    Also allowing you to "process" water to decrease its salinity (reverse osmosis, late tech).
    And if there are enough bits spare, maybe even include more proprieties?
    By mixing two pieces of water with different salinity the game could balance the total salinity with the relative volume, don't think it would be very heavy either.
    But then make this effect not be instant and actually make saltyness spread on the water would be something I have no clue how would be.
  4. scarere

    scarere <Battle Scarred Jesus>

    • Member
    Or maybe we could just differentiate oceans having salt water, and lakes and rivers and such having fresh water. Maybe the difference between salt water and fresh water could be shown with a slight change of colour
  5. _zombiehunter

    _zombiehunter Artist & Designer

    • Dev Member
    To clarify some things:
    - Full water clycle: Currently not planned and I don't think that such large-scale simulations are even possible. Rain/snow will be parts of the planned weather system though.
    - Buoyancy: Planned for some blocks ... and I see no reason to not add boats and ships :)
    - Water salinity: Will not work as you know it from Earth. Because of a high CO2 concentration in Aldrins atmosphere (1%, not dangerous for humans, but significantly higher than on Earth) and the very low amounts of chlorine on the planet, the main salt dissolved in Aldrins oceans and lakes isn't Sodium chloride, but Sodium carbonate (=Soda). Also, there will be no difference between any natural water sources, all the water blocks found on Aldrin are the same (basically to avoid problems caused by mixing of different water types). There will also be dry soda lakes in deserts (similar to salt lakes found on Earth), other carbonate minerals/rocks like Limestone or Dolomite will be very common throughout the planet. Soda and limestone are both important resources for the crafting of glass, cement and other building materials, whereas Sodium chloride would be, in comparison, relatively useless.
    - Water purification: This feature should be available in the future, the current plan is: It will be a simple distillation process with "Purified Water" as the main product, which can be used as a coolant or in steam engines, you'll also get a small amount of Heavy Water and Soda (which is very useful if you can't find any Soda deposits in rock layers or in deserts). The Heavy water will be the main source for Deuterium in the game. Purified and Heavy Water only exist in barrels, pipes and machines, if you place them as blocks, they turn into normal water blocks (again, to avoid mixing problems of different water types).
    _zombiehunter, Jun 6, 2014
    Last edited by _zombiehunter; at Jun 6, 2014
    #5
  6. ThatOneGuy

    ThatOneGuy Reinvented The Wheel

    • Member
    So there may be actual steam engines engineered by the player?
  7. _zombiehunter

    _zombiehunter Artist & Designer

    • Dev Member
    Sure. You won't have electricity from the beginning, so you'll have to use steam engines to power other machines. Using iron to build pipes, gears and some simple coal-powered machines (including steam engines and distillation plants) is one important step when climbing the technology ladder (note that, after you crash-landed your spaceship on Aldrin, you practically begin at stone-age level and have to climb the whole technology ladder up to the point where you can travel to other planets and stars again)
    _zombiehunter, Jun 6, 2014
    Last edited by _zombiehunter; at Jun 6, 2014
    #7
  8. tetryds

    tetryds cus tet, that's it

    • Member
    Ohhh yeah.
    Allowing servers to control this technology level would be awesome.
    Like having a medieval server and even remove the PDA (if possible) for a legit raw experience.
    tetryds, Jun 6, 2014
    Last edited by tetryds; at Jun 6, 2014
    #8
  9. ThatOneGuy

    ThatOneGuy Reinvented The Wheel

    • Member
    Sign me up!
  10. PsychoticLeprechaun

    PsychoticLeprechaun Designer & Web Developer

    • Dev Member
    One of the best parts of a progressive technology focused theme is that this is entirely possible. With modding being as important to us as it is, I am fairly certain that it could even be taken further and almost any era of humanity could be focused on by a server with a simple modification of settings and some mods that could potentially expand/theme that era even further!
  11. zeroinnocent

    zeroinnocent Tester

    • Tester
    as sayd erlier Full water clycle couldnt work since blocks and gravity wont uppdate outside the sphere where train uppdate is sett.
    what would be really cool would be that in the higher teck levl you can make osmotic power plants http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osmotic_power but sins those are exstream dificult to make it shold be in the same are of cost as nuclear power plants.
  12. Cisla

    Cisla Reinvented The Wheel

    • Member
    I think premade boat is not good, even the small one should be hand crafted
  13. Danijel

    Danijel Overclocked

    • Member
    If the placing/storage system is relied on the PDA, then it would be a little harder to have an option to remove it; Either make another explanation for unreasonable amount of invetory space, or reduce it to the realistic level.
  14. zeroinnocent

    zeroinnocent Tester

    • Tester
    maybe you could use the PDA just to see what kind of reasorces you have in your electronick chest.
  15. scarere

    scarere <Battle Scarred Jesus>

    • Member
    Just to be clear, is there going to be natural fresh water in the game? I think it would sorta take away from the game if you had to purify your water all the time, and build some high tech machine. Aside from purifying salt water, which makes sense later in the game, I think there should also be fresh water sources where all you have to do to purify them is boil it. Maybe you could also drink the unclean fresh water, but you just might get sick as a consequence if you drink too much.
  16. PsychoticLeprechaun

    PsychoticLeprechaun Designer & Web Developer

    • Dev Member
    There will be rivers, lakes and so on, so if salinity is included in the game, then you would indeed have access to fresh water, and I would dare say you would want to focus your building developments to be near such a supply of water! Though, it wouldn't be necessary, just more challenging with early technology if you were not to have a fresh water supply in your vicinity.
    PsychoticLeprechaun, Jun 8, 2014
    Last edited by PsychoticLeprechaun; at Jun 8, 2014
    #16
  17. ThatOneGuy

    ThatOneGuy Reinvented The Wheel

    • Member
    I concur.

    I too think it would be an awesome idea to have water that has a chance of being contaminated, potentially making the player sick, that is if you don't purify it first.
    Tery215 likes this.
  18. Cisla

    Cisla Reinvented The Wheel

    • Member
    A good idea may be the fish, when they are dead, contaminate the water
  19. tetryds

    tetryds cus tet, that's it

    • Member
    No, definitely not.
    An easy way to allow this kind of gameplay would be simply making you able to carry one single block at a time either using a minecart or holding it with both your hands.
    I believe this could be easily modded in and used by other mods.
    I would do it if I was able to.
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2014
    tetryds, Jun 9, 2014
    Last edited by tetryds; at Jun 9, 2014
    #19
    Tery215 likes this.
  20. Arctic

    Arctic Giant Robot Advocate

    • Tester
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