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Discussion in 'Meet the Devs' started by PsychoticLeprechaun, Feb 17, 2014.
Hey mathew! I finally got the forum membership! Im the one you just talked to
Lol I made up the word "Quonder." Pretty self explanatory xP
Well, quandary is a real word. It doesn't get a wiggly red line beneath it in MS Word, ergo it must be a legit word.
I quonder far too much at times.
(I suppose it is a portmanteau of "query" and "wonder"?)
Well those are additions, but those fit perfectly. Originally I was thinking ponder, question, inquire and wonder, but I was just "guessing" at my own word because I wrote it on accident. Lol.
Question: Do you like Minecraft?
I thought it was a great game, though I fairly quickly got bored of what the base game offered. Multiplayer extended it a bit, and modding had kept me interested till roughly a year ago. The problem is Minecraft does not properly support modding and so even that has limitations that turn me off. Minecraft was an ingeniously designed game when Notch first worked on it, but poorly implemented. That poor implementation with a bloating of the game in a way it wasn't meant to be bloated has quite hampered the game imo. I thoroughly enjoy the creative building aspect when I have time to sit down and build something, but the survival aspects just do not hold me whatsoever any more.
Ultimately, I consider it a great game, but hampered by the circumstances in which it has been developed.
I miss the good old days.. Faction servers running on early bukkit versions with about 100 players a server... Now we have these 'shitty' hub servers, they are fun. But they ruined multiplayer's purpose (Survival / Creative).
Then minecraft decided to revoke the capability of making money out of modding. This hit the community hard, and caused many modders and major modders to stop.. (Including me)
I sometimes still make simple bukkit plugins because I can enjoy it, but that's about it.
If you're referring to the EULA change about server monetization, that had nothing to do with modding specifically and everything with keeping the pay-to-win concept out of public servers. You can still charge for server access or for special ranks, you just have to treat everyone equally as far as gameplay is concerned. That's a laudable goal in my book, for Minecraft and for SoA.
I personally have limited awareness of the EULA debacle. I just know many reacted against it very strongly early on. I gave up with Minecraft because of the consistent failures of the development team to provide proper modding support - I doubt the promised modding API is out even now - and the bloating of the game with minimal increases in depth.
See! This is what I was trying to tell you! You can make money of your mods! Nobody ever said that you can't! It's only that they removed "the pay-to-win" servers, so that the game is more fun!
Also, making money should never be the reason to create a mod. It shouldn't play a big role, at least. You make the mod, because you want more of the game. Major modders didn't stop, either. And no body is going to steal your mods. They either going to rip it off, but then yours is still better, or they make a better variant of your mod. And it's never going to stop idea-stealing. So make the source open so people can learn from it!
And those "shitty" hub servers, there are still plenty of cool servers out there. Just search 'em. It's not a thing of just the past.
This is what I think about your stuff right now. It's not to point you're wrong or right or something, that's up to you. I just wanted to tell you.
Many modders and major modders stopped due to the new EULA, because they couldn't keep up. As they used to get money through pay-to-win features. You can still make money off modding, but it is extremely difficult. I know this for reasons. One of them is that I am very familiar with the modding community and the things that are going on.
And nobody usually cares about mods being stolen, most mods are open source anyways (Same as my mods, all my mods are open source) (I never said mine were closed source)
And yeah, there are some good servers out there. But they are hard to find.
Ok, but I have a question for you(since you're a modder): Why would you want to make money of mods? It costs no money to make one. I thought people did it for fun, to extend the game and share it with other people.
Actually this isn't true, modders make their mods with their spare time. If you had any other hobby, you tend to make money off it (e.g. in reenactment, you create new gear to sell to other reenactors, if you do airsoft you can create custom weapons or provide repair services that others can rely on). Modding uses time that could easily be taken up by something that generates money. Therefore for every hour spent making a mod can be considered as losing the money you would have otherwise made working.
That's why I was personally really happy to see some more official recognition for paid-for mods from Valve and Bethesda. Even if their implementation of servicing that was a bit of a disaster. Modders should be recognised for what they are; game expansion developers. The same as you would expect as a game developer, I see no reason a modder shouldn't expect proportionate compensation for the extra enjoyment they provide to the gaming community. That said, I do find it incredibly admirable when modders do it for free and stand resolute in that - even when offered the opportunity to put a price on their mods - I just wish more would donate in those cases to say thank you (god knows the donation rates are barely a trickle).
Put it this way, if many developers are allowed to sell extra weapons, skins or other items as DLC, why can't modders who made incredible mods like Frostfall for Skyrim or N Terraria for Terraria, or even Civilisation Nights for Civ V not be given some kind of compensation? Those mods add hundreds of hours of extra gameplay to each of those games. A DLC with a few extra weapons barely presents a mild boost in interest comparatively.
I believe that if the stigma in asking for money for mods was gone, you would see the same community as currently exists - most modders would still release most of their mods either for free, or with a free version - but would also have some professional modding teams (look at the Arma modding teams that have competed for money from Bohemia) that could be financially free to produce EPIC mods.
Most people do it for fun, but allot of them do it for the popularity and money. This is because it is time consuming and people want something in return
The charm in many game communities with a large modding scene is that everyone is doing it out of their passion for the game. I think there is a definite need among players and modders, to have an area in their lives free from the eternal competition and rigours of the free market.
Taking a modded Minecraft scene with paid mods as a hypothetical example, issues arise when some mods are designed to be played together with other mods, making them far less enjoyable to play if you don't have them installed. Or consider mods that develop into "infrastructure" mods over time that lots of other mods depend on, when suddenly that modder decides on a cash grab and go paid, which affects every mod that depends on it and no doubt creating a storm of users upset with the bait-and-switch.
You also risk splitting the community if every major mod was paid DLC and you needed them all just to be able to join say, an FTB Ultimate server or something like that.
Last but not least, the quality among mods varies wildly, modders appear and disappear from the scene at a whim and getting support for mods when there's a problem is often limited to that of other users, sometimes because the mod is technically "still in beta so you don't get to complain."
Given the potential for community splitting, mod interdependency and support issues, developers of paid mods should be held to a much higher standard both in quality and in support. The mod should be a fully enjoyable experience stand-alone and bugs and support issues should be handled properly.
I think I prefer the smaller-scale, more close-knit community feeling that you get when it's not all about the money.
I fully agree with those sentiments, @Sevio, but I'd still say that the modders of really high stature (due to the quality of the mod(s) they have produced) in their respective scenes deserve some kind of compensation at the very least - I would not presume to say that compensation must be monetary.
There are issues to involving money in the modding scene in any way - no doubt a major reason why many modders are greatly averse to the idea of paid-for modding in their personal modding scene. I would say that it has worked reasonably well for Valve-owned games, and that the issues can be resolved to some degree with a well-designed system. Though of course, problems will always exist, it's just a question of if the problems money in modding would present versus the problem of minimal monetary compensation for mod creators is weighed in one direction or the other.
One solution I've toyed with on occasion is the idea that modders could be required to apply for the right to sell each mod they create as a separate license from the game dev studio as the actual license to create a mod in the first place. Then the quality and legal issues can be solved by the development studio's support staff. Of course the issue is then the resources and funding of those resources needed to vet and license each mod that is applied for the status. I could see some optimisations to that process via a moderator team, but the issue would still exist in some form proportionate to the game's modding community success. One solution to that issue could be that the license include some x% royalty fee to the game studio for the fact that the mod relies on the game's existence in the first place, and that it allows for the system to exist full stop. Another solution simply being the studio find another consistent source of income (income from games themselves really not being consistent) - i.e. a game engine license programme, or a license programme for some other software that enables/assists development of other games.
There are still issues even with that solution, but I'm hopeful a solution could be found that wouldn't harm the modding community it is found for. I definitely would see prioritisation of the true communal feeling of the modding community as an essential aspect to any solution - my experiences on both the mod creation and usage sides of The Elder Scrolls and Minecraft were incredible (technically plug-in creation for MC); especially the tutoring the community around TES modding provided. We'll just have to see how the modding scene develops as a whole.