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Transparent shields and regenerative hull is something unique.

Discussion in 'Feature Suggestions' started by NeonSturm, Jan 25, 2016.

  1. NeonSturm

    NeonSturm Back Into Space

    • Member
    Many games require you to completely drain "shield" before you can touch the hull.
    Sometimes, few weapons allow you to ignore shields and damage just hull.

    I suggest that shields reduce the damage dealt to hull, but not nullify it.
    Example:
    shield_per_block = (shield / occupied(blocks in XZ) ) >= 1
    damage_hull = damage / shield_per_block >= damage * 0.1
    damage_shield = damage - damage_hull
    =
    shield scales 3D but divides by 2D, effectively scaling with depth. 10% damage is always dealt.​

    Hull blocks/chunks can regenerate after some time.
    https://youtu.be/C6K_ngxubhY?t=15m15s

    Basic hull : 1x hp and re-appears after 4 seconds
    Standard hull : 2x hp and re-appears after 10 seconds
    Advanced hull 3x hp and re-appears after 20 seconds
    Inverse damage dealt.

    * The larger an entity is, the more hull-blocks it has between the outside and the system-blocks, but it only scales linearly with depth - which gives small ships a chance to inflict damage.

    * However, bigger weapons punch wider holes, thus it scales linearly to 3 axis again (depth + 2D impact area)

    Weapons could build up a critical hit chance when they can't outright kill a block - to maintain dps after a no-kill.
    This consumes less data and CPU thank hp-per-block.

    * You don't have to remove a block, only disable it. (if it is not a system block)


    System blocks however (non-hull, reactors, …) get damaged permanently.

    * Rotating your ship allows hull on one side to recover and change the angle of attack so that a projectile cannot follow a digged-out path to the centre blocks.


    Ready for feedback ;)
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2016
    NeonSturm, Jan 25, 2016
    Last edited by NeonSturm; at Jan 25, 2016
    #1
  2. Potatocat

    Potatocat Back Into Space

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    If the shield is less than blocks, the damage is multiplied. I don't think that even a small shield will multiply damage.
    How about:
    damage = -shield * blocks^2 + damage
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2016
    Potatocat, Jan 25, 2016
    Last edited by Potatocat; at Jan 26, 2016
    #2
    NeonSturm likes this.
  3. NeonSturm

    NeonSturm Back Into Space

    • Member
    It is ok too, I must have missed the multiplication bug in my formula.

    shield_per_block = (shield / occupied(blocks in XZ) ) >= 1
    damage_hull = damage / shield_per_block >= damage * 0.1
    damage_shield = damage - damage_hull
    The shield formula is just an example of a transparency for damage. Not final in any way.​
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2016
    NeonSturm, Jan 25, 2016
    Last edited by NeonSturm; at Jan 26, 2016
    #3
  4. Potatocat

    Potatocat Back Into Space

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    Mhm. And my formula has a similar bug.
  5. NeonSturm

    NeonSturm Back Into Space

    • Member
    NP. the exact shield formula wasn't my main point anyway.
    I rather want to hear what you think about the rest of this idea.

    Do you like this rather unique method of shield-hull for a game?
    Can you think about a better idea to make block-layout important while still fighting the shield of vehicles?​
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2016
    NeonSturm, Jan 26, 2016
    Last edited by NeonSturm; at Jan 26, 2016
    #5
  6. Potatocat

    Potatocat Back Into Space

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    I like the idea of regenerative hull and transparent shields. Though, I think it would be a good idea to allow a player to concentrate more shield in a specific area.

    About how the shield works, do you think it is a good idea if it only strengthens present blocks? Let's say there is a ship designed to have decks that protrude into space, with no actual walls present to shield occupants from space debris or attack. They would have to rely on shields to protect them, some kind of force field around the ship rather than "attached" to it. Right now, all this shield system is, is a block strengthener.

    Side note: I could imagine leaving open spaces so people think that you have most of your shield concentrated there, or just have most of your ship hull turned into force field. Then they would think that the open space is extra concentrated force field, and try to attack the "weak" spots where there is hull.

    Edit: Instead of dividing shield strength by blocks it is protecting, divide it by the total surface area of the shield (inside, outside or both). This would make for an easier equation, as having shield as a variable, blocks as a variable and damage as a variable makes everything so much more complicated when putting all this into math terms. I've been thinking about it all last night, and I couldn't figure out a proper formula to do it.
    Potatocat, Jan 26, 2016
    Last edited by Potatocat; at Jan 26, 2016
    #6
  7. NeonSturm

    NeonSturm Back Into Space

    • Member
    Maybe there could be shield-blocks too (similar to hull blocks) which let damage pass without getting removed.

    Important is that shield approaches 100% absorption but never reaches it fully.
    If it reaches 100% absorption, the game becomes a boring who-kills-shields-first again.

    There could be some sort of force-field-hull block which is basically a hull through which you can walk and see.
    Don't confuse force-field block here with shield-block above. Force-field works like hull, shield draws from a global pool (or how else should I name these two variants?).

    I divided shield through obscured XZ (which is basically all hull blocks you see from straight above). But with shield-blocks (see first answer, this post) there is more freedom.​


    Summary:
    Hull – regenerates x seconds after block-break.
    Force-Field – Hull through which you can walk. Only projectiles collide with it (or if you have yellow/red alert it can get collide-able).

    Shield – divides damage, uses a total shield pool, gets more transparent the more spread it is, gets a stronger damage reduction factor with depth of surface instead of depth*width*height of a volume.
    Shield – either divides through blocks in the largest cross-section or the number of placed shield blocks in a 2D surface around your ship additionally to hull blocks.​
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2016
    NeonSturm, Jan 26, 2016
    Last edited by NeonSturm; at Jan 26, 2016
    #7
  8. Potatocat

    Potatocat Back Into Space

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    Why 2D? I don't understand the application.
  9. NeonSturm

    NeonSturm Back Into Space

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    2D is the surface. the 3rd Dimension is depth @Potatocat .

    Imagine you have a ship 10x10x10 with a surface area of 10x10*6=600.
    Then you double the size and have a ship 20x20x20 with a surface area of 20x20*6=2'400.
    The double-sized has 8x volume, 4x surface and 2x depth.

    If you have 2x depth, you can put 2x as many shield capacitors behind each 1x1 m shield plate that is hit.

    A 8x volume weapon (2x * 2y * 2z scale) hits 4x the surface area and 2x the depth.
    Two 1x volume weapons needs to shot twice as much in total to hit 2x the depth but doesn't hit 4x the surface area as the large version.​
    NeonSturm, Jan 26, 2016
    Last edited by NeonSturm; at Jan 26, 2016
    #9
  10. Potatocat

    Potatocat Back Into Space

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    So, it is simply the surface area of the ship gained from an algorithm that counts all outer, unadjoined surfaces? Or is it only surfaces on a specific axis?
  11. NeonSturm

    NeonSturm Back Into Space

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    I don't know what you mean, I try to answer what I think you mean
    Cross-sections count exposed faces: 2xy + 2xz + 2yz.​
    • 2* because from below/above
    • xy, xz, yz are 2D cross-sections of a 3D object. Subtracting 1 dimension on an axis.
    It counts the block-faces that are seen from straight above/below (orthogonal view), straight front/rear and straight left/right.

    If not otherwise defined, you can assume each block-face has an equal amount of shielding. You can count exposed block-faces using above strategy.
    Note: Likewise you could count the surface of a bubble around the ship, but that would discourage players from building anything but efficient Borg-Cubes/Spheres.​
    If you have "shield"-blocks, you have an uneven distribution and can solve the problem by counting these "shield"-blocks.
    Then you don't need this anymore.
    Note: You might still need it anyway if you are counting heat-dissipation or solar-exposition or other stuff which is not discussed here.​
    NeonSturm, Jan 27, 2016
    Last edited by NeonSturm; at Jan 27, 2016
    #11

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